Amazon Seeking 2nd Headquarters: Canadian Cities Pitch Interest

[Martin Mtl]

Just read this in the G&M:

"Sidewalk Labs has released documents showing that in return for developing the Quayside community, it intends to push for access to money the city would typically collect."

A private company that gets the right to collect taxes in place of the city ? That's totally crazy.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Just read this in the G&M:

"Sidewalk Labs has released documents showing that in return for developing the Quayside community, it intends to push for access to money the city would typically collect."

A private company that gets the right to collect taxes in place of the city ? That's totally crazy.

Not sure of the details, but if true, it moves us one step closer to "private cities".

I wonder what Huxley and Orwell would have said about that?

[niwell]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

No taxes and free land to build some sci-fi utopia which we later find out isn't utopian at all.

I'm not opposed to government investing in new community concepts but, not in a city with out of control real estate and through a publicly traded tech company. There's billions in public dollars going into the Portland already to prepare it for residential use. The public needs to get something back on that investment. We can't afford to hand it over for free.

I feel the same way. Municipal investment can certainly be a positive, but needs to be structured in a way that benefit is actually returned to the community.

With Sidewalk we've gone from a vague promise of benefit through urban design with the trade-off being they profit through collection of data. Now not only do they still want to profit off that but use an entire area as a test case... for free. At best maybe get some innovative wood structures (entirely conceptual at this point). Somehow I get the feeling we're sliding backwards...

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not sure of the details, but if true, it moves us one step closer to "private cities".

I wonder what Huxley and Orwell would have said about that?

I would not want to live there. And I don't think any city should give any private entity that right.

[ColdGarden]

I don't have any problem with the experiment per se, under the following conditions:

• the agreement is time boxed, so the city can revert to business as usual at some point
• the experiment isn't done in an already resource constrained locale which is desperate for new housing and a sustainable housing strategy to bring down outrageous runaway housing costs and rents

[ColdGarden]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

The HQ2 campaign backfired on Amazon and could lead to more changes when it comes to corporate welfare in the US. LOL

It's not inferior to know your limitations. I don't think it was a good strategy to submit proposals that could not meet Amazon's basic needs but, others have said (paraphasing) any publicity is good publicity.

Amazon seems very comfortable making these kind of grey area plays which end up being PR disasters. They have a long history for trying something shady to test the waters, it backfires and then adjusting their strategy to get around the PR fallout.

This behaviour goes all the way back to 2000 with their disgusting demographic price testing program.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

I would not want to live there. And I don't think any city should give any private entity that right.

Our current fascination with tech companies mirrors our fascination with nuclear power in the 1950s and 1960s.

For awhile, it looked like the future. Then, as we got wise to the downsides of nuclear power, public opinion changed.

I wonder if Google and Amazon will suffer that same blowback. Certainly, the headwinds have been building against them.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not sure of the details, but if true, it moves us one step closer to "private cities".

I wonder what Huxley and Orwell would have said about that?

Wonder if they'll have their own private police force too...


But hey, they released some pretty renderings so it's all good.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Wonder if they'll have their own private police force too...

We know how well that usually turns out...

[Corndogger]

Amazon Will Pay a Whopping $0 in Federal Taxes on $11.2 Billion Profits

By Laura Stampler February 14, 2019

Those wondering how many zeros Amazon, which is valued at nearly $800 billion, has to pay in federal taxes might be surprised to learn that its check to the IRS will read exactly $0.00.

According to a report published by the Institute on Taxation and Economic (ITEP) policy Wednesday, the e-tail/retail/tech/entertainment/everything giant won’t have to pay a cent in federal taxes for the second year in a row.

This tax-free break comes even though Amazon almost doubled its U.S. profits from $5.6 billion to $11.2 billion between 2017 and 2018.

To top it off, Amazon actually reported a $129 million 2018 federal income tax rebate—making its tax rate -1%.

Source: http://fortune.com/2019/02/14/amazon...al-taxes-2019/

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by wave46

Our current fascination with tech companies mirrors our fascination with nuclear power in the 1950s and 1960s.

For awhile, it looked like the future. Then, as we got wise to the downsides of nuclear power, public opinion changed.

I wonder if Google and Amazon will suffer that same blowback. Certainly, the headwinds have been building against them.

This is still sad. Nuclear power is carbon-free, has very high output, and if properly managed is clean, save, and reliable. Even today it remains the only feasible way to decarbonize a power grid for most jurisdictions (those that don't have the geography for mass hydro-power development like Quebec, BC and Norway did).

The "environmentalist" action against nuclear in Germany has only served to increase coal use.

[Prometheus]

Reportedly, Amazon will now add to its already-planned 5,000 corporate and tech jobs in downtown Vancouver:

Some Jobs Planned for NYC's Amazon HQ2 Will Go to Vancouver: Report

Feb 15, 2019 1:15 pm

Even more Amazon corporate and tech jobs are planned for Vancouver as a result of the tech giant’s surprising decision this week to cancel its HQ2 location in New York City, which was set to see 25,000 jobs from the new headquarters.

Amazon's spokesperson told CNBC on Thursday that the bulk of the 25,000 jobs that the company had promised to create in New York City for HQ2 will now go to other corporate offices and tech hubs owned by Amazon across 17 North American cities, including Boston, San Francisco and Vancouver

By 2022, with the completion of Amazon’s new major office at the Canada Post redevelopment, the number of people employed with the company in downtown Vancouver will increase to 5,000 — up from about 2,000 today. These numbers will grow even further due to the ripple effect from the reallocation of NYC HQ2 jobs.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/new-...uver-expansion

[Gresto]

Congrats, Vancouver?

[vid]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Amazon Will Pay a Whopping $0 in Federal Taxes on $11.2 Billion Profits

By Laura Stampler February 14, 2019

Those wondering how many zeros Amazon, which is valued at nearly $800 billion, has to pay in federal taxes might be surprised to learn that its check to the IRS will read exactly $0.00.

According to a report published by the Institute on Taxation and Economic (ITEP) policy Wednesday, the e-tail/retail/tech/entertainment/everything giant won’t have to pay a cent in federal taxes for the second year in a row.

This tax-free break comes even though Amazon almost doubled its U.S. profits from $5.6 billion to $11.2 billion between 2017 and 2018.

To top it off, Amazon actually reported a $129 million 2018 federal income tax rebate—making its tax rate -1%.

Source: http://fortune.com/2019/02/14/amazon...al-taxes-2019/

You know, there's a solution for this:

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Reportedly, Amazon will now add to its already-planned 5,000 corporate and tech jobs in downtown Vancouver:



https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/new-...uver-expansion

When Amazon announced its expansion in Vancouver (3000 new jobs is nothing to sneeze at), which has already resulted in large office developments, I felt that Vancouver did kind of “win.”

It meant that Vancouver was out of the “big prize” but we got a substantial “consolation” prize without needing to sell the city’s soul.

And now, as we are seeing, winning the big prize isn’t all it was thought to be.

[craneSpotter]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Amazon Will Pay a Whopping $0 in Federal Taxes on $11.2 Billion Profits

Nothing new - they are just benefitting from long standing US tax laws, plus recent changes made by the current US federal government. Not the only ones that are, of course (hello GM & lots of US Energy/Utility companies). The hope is that the tax savings turn to capital expenditures and not share buy-backs or some such... Amazon certainly doesn't pay dividends to share holders...

Here are the largest US tax subsidies to corporations from 2008 - 2015:

Companies with the biggest tax subsidies over the eight years, the institute’s report said, included:

■ AT&T ($38.1 billion)
■ Wells Fargo ($31.4 billion)
■ JPMorgan Chase ($22.2 billion)
■ Verizon ($21.1 billion)
■ IBM ($17.8 billion)
■ General Electric ($15.4 billion)
■ Exxon Mobil ($12.9 billion)
■ Boeing ($11.9 billion)
■ Procter & Gamble ($8.5 billion)
■ Twenty-First Century Fox ($7.6 billion)
■ Time Warner ($6.7 billion)
■ Goldman Sachs ($5.5 billion)

source: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/09/b...ax-report.html


It would be interesting to see the tax subsidy numbers for Canadian corporations. I know utilities, agriculture and energy reap billions in tax subsidies/write offs each year alone.

[craneSpotter]

I found this with regard to Canadian corporate tax subsidies:

BUSINESS SUBSIDIES IN CANADA: COMPREHENSIVE ESTIMATES FOR THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA AND THE FOUR LARGEST PROVINCES

source: https://www.policyschool.ca/wp-conte...ada-Lester.pdf

SUMMARY
Business subsidies in Canada: the “winner” is Alberta; the loser is the taxpayer

The federal government and the four largest provinces in Canada spend about $29 billion a year on business subsidies, delivered through program spending, the tax system, government business enterprises and direct investments by government. These subsidies represent almost half of the corporate income tax revenue collected by the five jurisdictions.

Surprisingly, given its reputation as a bastion of free enterprise, Alberta is the most prolific subsidizer. In the 2014-15 fiscal year, per person subsidies were $640 in Alberta, about $100 ahead of the next most generous jurisdiction, Québec. Alberta has probably added to its “lead” through measures introduced in the October 2015 Fiscal Update and the 2016 budget. Alberta also stands out by having the least transparent public reporting of business subsidies.

What motivates governments to subsidize business? Abstracting from cynical efforts to win votes, business subsidies have two broad objectives: to improve economic performance and to achieve a social objective by supporting specific firms, industries or regions. On average in the five jurisdictions, the split between the two categories is about 70-30 in favour of economic development measures.

Assessing value for money from programs with a social objective is subjective, but measures intended to improve economic performance should be assessed on their ability to raise real income. Business subsidies can only raise real income if markets fail to allocate labour and capital to their best uses.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Reportedly, Amazon will now add to its already-planned 5,000 corporate and tech jobs in downtown Vancouver:



https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/new-...uver-expansion

The question is how many of those jobs will Vancouver get? Interesting to see the CNBC story mention Vancouver along with Boston and San Francisco as Amazon hubs.

[WhipperSnapper]

It's a Vancouver article from a Vancouver writer. It would be interesting if he didn't mention Vancouver with Boston and San Francisco. That would be breaking with the formula.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

It's a Vancouver article from a Vancouver writer. It would be interesting if he didn't mention Vancouver with Boston and San Francisco. That would be breaking with the formula.

He is quoting directly from CNBC in New York City:

Amazon's spokesperson told CNBC on Thursday that the bulk of the 25,000 jobs that the company had promised to create in New York City for HQ2 will now go to other corporate offices and tech hubs owned by Amazon across 17 North American cities, including Boston, San Francisco and Vancouver.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/14/new-...mazon-hq2.html