How has the culture of alcohol changed in your city/province since you were young?

[Nashe]

I can't speak for the rest of the entire Maritimes but in rural NB in the 80's it wasn't unusual to have a hung-over kid with head-in-hands in a Monday morning class. In grade 8. People just chuckled and rolled their eyes. Underage drinking was... not a "thing" that I remember being talked about. All of the weekend parties had booze long before graduation. All of the public posters were against drinking and driving but picking beer bottles in ditches along country roads (how else would they get there?) was a thing I did several times as a kid. "The guy that lived across from the bootlegger?" was a bonafide way to identify someone.

[SignalHillHiker]

In my impression, it hasn't really changed much here.

You can buy locally-brewed beer basically anywhere, even highway gas stations sell singles. For wine and anything harder, you need to go a liquor store. In the city, they're usually attached to a grocery but in smaller towns they're likely a section of the only superette/general store/gas station.

You can legally drink in public only at events like the George Street Festival. But, I mean, I pick up the litter around my house once a week on garbage collection day and there are always more Maximum Ice cans than Tim Horton's cups/lids.

Still very much a binge drinking culture. For most people it's not something you do every day, but it's something you do to get drunk. Lots of exceptions (I only remember seeing my parents half cut once, for example). People also seem overwhelmingly to drink responsibly at sporting events, concerts, breweries, and with meals.

Rum and coke still seems to be the default drink for older men, while women have switched to red wine mixed with Fresca or coolers. People in their 30s-40s seem to be doing mostly beer but cocktails are popular. No idea what the youth are drinking, if at all.

It seems very different than when I was growing up. I was out at the gay bar drinking (and worse; I feel so fortunate I grew up before fentanyl) when I was 16, 17. By the time I was legal (19?) it wasn't even a big deal lol These days, I rarely see kids that young out at the bars. Of course, I'm not going to Oiche or Martini or any of the spots known for a younger crowd. Firmly in my dark, live music, pub phase in life.

EDIT: Oh, and beaches. Anywhere you can have a fire (that's the rarer thing), you'd be having a few drinks.

[Acajack]

I think we've been through 3 pages without anyone mentioning demographic changes and their impact on declining alcohol consumption.

Obviously many people from teetotalling religions and cultures "cheat" and do drink, but still there are rapidly growing segments of the population where drinking is verboten so it can't not have an effect and push alcohol downwards in its societal ubiquity.

When I was a teen and young adult almost no one didn't drink at least a bit.

Now there are more young people who don't and it's mostly for religious and cultural reasons. Even though some cheat on occasion.

[urbandreamer]

True. Do the Dutch-Reformed and Mennonites that populate Ontario small towns and farms drink? Doubtful.

Muslims from Africa, Middle East aside from Iran?

Mormons?

Plymouth Brethren?

Old Order Amish? (Yes)

[savevp]

A couple thoughts:

It's unfortunate that it took a pandemic, but covid did bring Canada's absurdly overregulated alcohol laws forward a good chunk. Most provinces now have some form of bottle shop or private alcohol retail regime - we're still way behind, but it's getting better.

I have a bottle shop I love in St Catharines where I stop every time I'm in town for work. They do almost entirely local Niagara wine and have winemakers in doing tasting flights every weekend. This was simply illegal in Ontario before covid. Clearly that's a step forward, but they also went through utter hell trying to get a liquor licence. It's far easier to open a cannabis store in Ontario than a private wine shop, which still technically doesn't exist as a legal category of business.

The weird fixation about public drinking is still on the books in most cities. You probably won't get a ticket in a big city but smaller towns would likely still fine you. We have a weird situation in some places (esp BC) where you're more likely to be punished for taking a beer for a stroll than for smoking crack on the street.

Many young people seem to have switched to cannabis as the intoxicant of choice. I suspect that cohort may move over to wine or beer as they age and start looking for something to pour at mealtime, hanging out on the dock, etc. Cannabis is only a substitute for getting drunk, not for drinking.

Pub closures have been a huge trend for years in the UK, and whilst it probably isn't a growth industry here, I think we've been spared the worst of that.

Our domestic beer industry has pretty much bottomed out as a source of national pride; we've lost that to global and especially American swill brands. This has been documented in the beer thread.

Alcohol continues to be taxed to the moon, being used as a relatively painless vehicle for tax rises. Governments can say they are trying to encourage responsible drinking. Of course that is a fallacy - higher alcohol taxes invariably just push people to cheaper brands.

We are a prolific exporter of raw and bulk alcohol but most brands haven't attempted to widely market themselves globally. Crown Royal is massive across North America but there's no reason Molson Canadian isn't a staple at world bars, where any cold Lager would do. We export literal train loads of cheap bulk rye to the States for bottling by American brands, and Canadian whisky as a category seems popular across the continent.

Regarding demographic changes, I would imagine Muslims are the only group coming here in large numbers who don't widely drink.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think we've been through 3 pages without anyone mentioning demographic changes and their impact on declining alcohol consumption.

Obviously many people from teetotalling religions and cultures "cheat" and do drink, but still there are rapidly growing segments of the population where drinking is verboten so it can't not have an effect and push alcohol downwards in its societal ubiquity.

When I was a teen and young adult almost no one didn't drink at least a bit.

Now there are more young people who don't and it's mostly for religious and cultural reasons. Even though some cheat on occasion.

I think Boomers are dirinking less as they get older, alcoholics excluded.

[VANRIDERFAN]

I was a heavy drinker in my teenage and young adult life. Getting black out drunk, impaired driving charges, and spent a couple of days in jail because of it. Even into my early 30`s I would still tie one on especially in Foreign Ports when our ship was alongside.
I don`t know when things started to change but I still have a wine at dinner and a beer after work but no more than one or two at most.

My daughter likes her cocktails and wine, my son doesn`t drink at all.

In the military there has been a big crackdown on the drinking culture which has affected the messes (basically private clubs for Officers, Senior Rates, and junior NCMs). There is no drinking at sea allowed anymore, but our ships haven`t gone completely dry yet.

Finally I have no idea how anyone can afford to have more than 3 drinks at a bar anymore. 10 cent draft is such a 1970`s thing.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by savevp

I have a bottle shop I love in St Catharines where I stop every time I'm in town for work. They do almost entirely local Niagara wine and have winemakers in doing tasting flights every weekend. This was simply illegal in Ontario before covid. Clearly that's a step forward, but they also went through utter hell trying to get a liquor licence. It's far easier to open a cannabis store in Ontario than a private wine shop, which still technically doesn't exist as a legal category of business.

.

There's a great shop like that near me that was actually able to get the license pretty easily but had a run of annoying issues once things were set up. First their insurance wasn't allowing consumption of more than a single glass of wine or beer on site (their goal is to be a combo bottle shop / small bar), and then the AGCO claimed they needed to track the names and addresses of all customers. One of the co-owners used to be a Director in the Ontario Public Service (where I know him from!) and actually worked in the alcohol file so I assume knew it was complete bs. Thankfully things are back on track now, and it's worth a visit for anyone who likes good wine/beer and is in the Roncy area of Toronto.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...agco-1.7130015

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by savevp

A couple thoughts:

It's unfortunate that it took a pandemic, but covid did bring Canada's absurdly overregulated alcohol laws forward a good chunk. Most provinces now have some form of bottle shop or private alcohol retail regime - we're still way behind, but it's getting better.

I have a bottle shop I love in St Catharines where I stop every time I'm in town for work. They do almost entirely local Niagara wine and have winemakers in doing tasting flights every weekend. This was simply illegal in Ontario before covid. Clearly that's a step forward, but they also went through utter hell trying to get a liquor licence. It's far easier to open a cannabis store in Ontario than a private wine shop, which still technically doesn't exist as a legal category of business.

The weird fixation about public drinking is still on the books in most cities. You probably won't get a ticket in a big city but smaller towns would likely still fine you. We have a weird situation in some places (esp BC) where you're more likely to be punished for taking a beer for a stroll than for smoking crack on the street.

Many young people seem to have switched to cannabis as the intoxicant of choice. I suspect that cohort may move over to wine or beer as they age and start looking for something to pour at mealtime, hanging out on the dock, etc. Cannabis is only a substitute for getting drunk, not for drinking.

Pub closures have been a huge trend for years in the UK, and whilst it probably isn't a growth industry here, I think we've been spared the worst of that.

Our domestic beer industry has pretty much bottomed out as a source of national pride; we've lost that to global and especially American swill brands. This has been documented in the beer thread.

Alcohol continues to be taxed to the moon, being used as a relatively painless vehicle for tax rises. Governments can say they are trying to encourage responsible drinking. Of course that is a fallacy - higher alcohol taxes invariably just push people to cheaper brands.

We are a prolific exporter of raw and bulk alcohol but most brands haven't attempted to widely market themselves globally. Crown Royal is massive across North America but there's no reason Molson Canadian isn't a staple at world bars, where any cold Lager would do. We export literal train loads of cheap bulk rye to the States for bottling by American brands, and Canadian whisky as a category seems popular across the continent.

Regarding demographic changes, I would imagine Muslims are the only group coming here in large numbers who don't widely drink.

The “weird fixation with public drinking” as you call it came about from witnessing drunken brawls. Lives destroyed by alcohol in earlier years. Now we’ve become so inured to it in our large cities as the drug zombies take that journey into degradation that much further. People vomiting and fighting due to alcohol seems positively quaint by comparison.

[savevp]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The “weird fixation with public drinking” as you call it came about from witnessing drunken brawls. Lives destroyed by alcohol in earlier years.

The inability to distinguish between people walking with a beer and brawling in the streets is pretty weird.

At least in Toronto, Montréal, Vancouver, you can more or less always walk with a drink and be unmolested. But in a smaller town where the cops have less to do, you'd probably still get at least a speaking-to if a policeman saw you swigging at the corner.

Although there's nothing stopping you from filling a tankard with a cocktail that looks like juice. Or claiming its non-alcoholic beer. Or filling your Tim's cup with vodka...

[giallo]

I went to meet some friends for a couple of drinks at a local park yesterday after work, and decided to bring my camera along.

The neighbourhood park really has become the new pub. I think COVID helped create this park hangout culture. People would go to the park before, but it was more for sports-related activities with a beer or two after you've finished. Now it's a place to hang out for hours with friends ordering snacks from the food trucks that surround the parks, and casually have a couple of drinks.

I'm not sure this would have worked back in the 90s. We were way more feral than the younger generations of today. Everyone cleans up after themselves, and no one was acting out.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think we've been through 3 pages without anyone mentioning demographic changes and their impact on declining alcohol consumption.

Obviously many people from teetotalling religions and cultures "cheat" and do drink, but still there are rapidly growing segments of the population where drinking is verboten so it can't not have an effect and push alcohol downwards in its societal ubiquity.

When I was a teen and young adult almost no one didn't drink at least a bit.

Now there are more young people who don't and it's mostly for religious and cultural reasons. Even though some cheat on occasion.

I was thinking this too. When I was a university undergrad about 15 years ago, we were all fairly heavy drinkers, and our undergraduate society, along with all others, had a huge focus on mixers, pub crawls, etc. These days those same societies appear to have hard pivoted away from all of that in favour of more family-friendly group events. Very rarely do I see them posting about mixers or pub crawls.

It does seem that the young 20 year olds consume a lot less than folks my age did. Honestly it's probably for the better.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think we've been through 3 pages without anyone mentioning demographic changes and their impact on declining alcohol consumption.

Obviously many people from teetotalling religions and cultures "cheat" and do drink, but still there are rapidly growing segments of the population where drinking is verboten so it can't not have an effect and push alcohol downwards in its societal ubiquity.

When I was a teen and young adult almost no one didn't drink at least a bit.

Now there are more young people who don't and it's mostly for religious and cultural reasons. Even though some cheat on occasion.

Religion - or more specifically, the growth of the Muslim population - no doubt plays a role, but I think you're overstating it. They still only amount to 5% of the population (up from 2% in 2001), and certainly not all of them are strictly halal. Most of the nominally Muslim folks I've known have been of the drinking variety at least (though obviously there's some confirmation bias there as I'm not hanging out with hardcore religious zealots).

There are lots of other factors playing a role in the decline of alcohol consumption, eg:

-Growing health-consciousness, risk aversion, and awareness of the potential harms of drinking amongst all demographics. This is probably the biggest one.
-Aging population. People generally drink less as they age.
-Legalization of cannabis & mushrooms and growing tolerance/availability of other drugs (though, apparently drug use is down amongst Gen Z too, albeit at a lower rate of decline than alcohol).
-Drinking has gotten expensive.
-This is conjecture, but I'd hypothesize that a big part of why young people in particular drink & party less now is due to the ubiquitousness of camera phones, social media, helicopter parenting, and the general socially-imposed surveillance state that they live in. The prospect of "letting loose" has a lot more potential repercussions now, if someone catches you saying or doing something inappropriate or embarrassing.

[Kilgore Trout]

Yes, I think there isn't much to back up the idea that the growth of the Muslim population has led to less drinking. You'd see more of a correlation in places with large Muslim populations like Montreal, and yet there is no evidence of that.

Also, let's keep in mind that the decline in drinking may be overstated. Clearly there's a long-term trend towards more moderate consumption, not just in Canada but everywhere in the world. And yet there are also far more breweries today than at any point in the past century, more distilleries, more wineries. Alcohol in Canada is more widely available and widely consumed than at any point in the past several generations. It's just that most people who drink don't drink as heavily as they did in the past.

Just one example of why the decline may be exaggerated: there have been a lot of stories about how SAQ sales are down by double-digit percentages over the past couple of years. But nearly all of that decline is due to lower sales to bars and restaurants. Retail sales have declined only by 1 percent.

[ericmacm]

I’m in my late 20s now and I don’t drink so much anymore. The big change for me was after the pandemic - during the pandemic I was drinking more often than previously and was getting into a lot more hard liquor/mixed drinks. In 2022 my now fiancée and I started paring back on alcohol consumption because we were always feeling terrible and being incredibly pessimistic. I still drink now, but significantly less than I used to. I probably have 2 or so drinks a month now. For a while I didn't drink anything for a few months and I could feel my body “waking up” and my attitude/outlook changing. Combined with going to the gym, it was the best I had felt in years.

When I drink now, I feel like crap after, so I have continued to drink less and less. I personally still crave a pint of Guinness or a G&T every now and then, but it happens less and less frequently. I have personally gotten more into cannabis beverages, as I feel they do a better job of “taking the edge off” if I get the dosage right and I don’t feel awful in the morning after. Even still, cannabis beverages aren’t a frequent thing for me either.

[harls]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

This is conjecture, but I'd hypothesize that a big part of why young people in particular drink & party less now is due to the ubiquitousness of camera phones, social media, helicopter parenting, and the general socially-imposed surveillance state that they live in. The prospect of "letting loose" has a lot more potential repercussions now, if someone catches you saying or doing something inappropriate or embarrassing.

My god I would be in a lot of trouble if today's technology existed in my first year of university. We just had disposable cameras back then and that was bad enough.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Young people drinking less is interesting. It's certainly more expensive but I wonder if fewer people having the full university/residency experience and those that do being under age (in Ontario) during their first year has any impact. It's a Toronto centic point of view. Everyone else from Southern Ontario and the outer 905 in my residence were lushes by 15.

I suspect the legalization of cannabis has had an impact. In my neighbourhood there’s a cannabis store a block from Douglas College, and on Friday evenings there’s always a lineup outside. The local liquor stores don’t get big lineups and the crowd is definitely older on average compared with the cannabis store.

Very much anecdotal, and Surrey not having any cannabis stores might be giving the New West store extra customers.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Ottawa is considerably more puritanical than Toronto as well. Same with Kingston.

The only exception might be in deep rural Eastern Ontario where the libertarian "back off gubment" mindset overrides pretty much anything else.

That was my experience with Eastern Ontario too, relative to Toronto or London.

I once read that Loyalist Township (then called Ernestown Township) was dry up until 1973, only 51 years ago. No LCBO or Beer Store, and restaurants could not serve alcohol. Eventually a local golf course lobbied for the sale of alcohol to be allowed, and it was very controversial. Most of the support for allowing alcohol sales was coming from newcomers to the municipality.

Such a prohibition that late in the 20th century would’ve been unthinkable in the London area, particularly with the economic dependence on Labatt’s and Carling in the region.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by harls

My god I would be in a lot of trouble if today's technology existed in my first year of university. We just had disposable cameras back then and that was bad enough.

You and me both. I cringe thinking about the shit I got myself into, so many times, back in my drunken, stoned, wild oats' days.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Religion - or more specifically, the growth of the Muslim population - no doubt plays a role, but I think you're overstating it. They still only amount to 5% of the population (up from 2% in 2001), and certainly not all of them are strictly halal. Most of the nominally Muslim folks I've known have been of the drinking variety at least (though obviously there's some confirmation bias there as I'm not hanging out with hardcore religious zealots).
.

It's not the only main factor but it certainly has a big influence. The 5% Muslims figure is from 2021 and it's the fastest-growing religion in Canada and many newcomers who have arrived in recent years are Muslim. Plus younger generations are more than 5% Muslim as their age pyramid is a lot younger. Montreal and Toronto were already almost 10% Muslim in 2021. Younger generations may now be around 20% Muslim in these cities, and younger people are where a lot of your drinkers are traditionally.