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  #21  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2012, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
^^ I have to bite...how do you figure that Philly's cultural vibrancy needs improvement?

By "cultural vibrancy" I'm broadly referring to things like (contemporary) music, art, fashion, food, nightlife. For which Philadelphia seems to punch a little below its weight considering the size of the city (then again I could be wrong...). Unsurprising though with New York being right there, "stealing" away potential talent, plus regional competition with DC, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh. It doesn't quite lord over a vast hinterland like San Francisco or Detroit or Portland or Miami or Chicago or Toronto or Montreal. The upside of this of course being the proximity to other major, interesting cities - always a nice thing.
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  #22  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
By "cultural vibrancy" I'm broadly referring to things like (contemporary) music, art, fashion, food, nightlife. For which Philadelphia seems to punch a little below its weight considering the size of the city (then again I could be wrong...). Unsurprising though with New York being right there, "stealing" away potential talent, plus regional competition with DC, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh. It doesn't quite lord over a vast hinterland like San Francisco or Detroit or Portland or Miami or Chicago or Toronto or Montreal. The upside of this of course being the proximity to other major, interesting cities - always a nice thing.
I would say that you are wrong about the cultural vibrancy especially when it comes to food and bars. The art scene in Philly is pretty strong too.
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  #23  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 1:08 AM
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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
I find it funny that Philadelphian's are ALWAYS Philadelphia's strongest critic.

-How is the west cut off by I-76 when I-76 runs UNDER the street grid? The only gap in in development is the Schuylkill River... and with all of the parks and new highrises cropping up, the connection between Center City and UCity is becoming ever stronger.

-The Vine Street Expressway is an easy solution... cap it with parks. Done.

-I-95 is the BIGGEST obstacle. However, I-95 can be capped with parks from Race Street to South Street... as for the rest of 95, it runs above grade and there is currently plans to build "connectors" in each underpass connecting the city to the Delaware Waterfront much like the Race Street Connector.


http://phillyshark.blogspot.com/2011...-now-open.html

As for public transit... really? I understand the U.S. is pretty lacking in public transit but the ONLY cities in the US with better public transit than Philadelphia is NYC and Chicago... maybe arguably Boston. Philadelphia has a pretty great public transit system for an American City....
Neah, I love Philly and always talk it up when I get a chance. But I also try to be as honest as possible about whatever flaws there are. Having worked in Center City and live in Fishtown for the past 6 years, I'd like to think I have a decent perspective on the walkability of the city.

And the pedestrian experience from Center City to West Philly (University City) stinks. South Street bridge is decent, but the rest are not very pedestrian friendly. Plus you have a bunch of blocks that are kind of no-man's land on both sides (this situation is improving).

Vine Street could be capped sure, but there are simply no plans on the horizon for this to happen. Not in the next 10 years at least. Still a massively ambitious and expensive project.

Transit is pretty decent by American standards, but it's not Manhattan good...or even Boston good IMO. Hard to get around the fact that there are only 2 subway lines. Not complaining, I use the El every day, but for true walkability we need better coverage.

So my point is, Philly is great, things are generally moving in the positive direction, but there are still substantial challenges to address before we talk about how walkable the city is. Because the very much walkable downtown is in many ways cutoff from some of the most walkable neighborhoods. There needs to be a seamless transition, before we start patting ourselves on the back.
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  #24  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 1:37 AM
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I think hammersklavier, fflint, and a few others who mentioned bicycling in Philly might be onto something here. Wasn't there an article a while back about adding bike lanes to some of the cross streets (13th Street, etc)?

I do agree that the city has something going with its walkability, and I, too, think it can only get better! They can easily deck I-95 and the Vine St. Expressway to make for a seamless connection between Center City/Old City with the Delaware River and North Philly. Aren't they/didn't they improve the Market Street bridge and/or JFK Blvd Bridge over the Schuylkill River that included better sidewalks? I think more could be done about some of those bridges over the Schuylkill, but I do see it getting there...
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  #25  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 1:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonboy1983 View Post
I think hammersklavier, fflint, and a few others who mentioned bicycling in Philly might be onto something here. Wasn't there an article a while back about adding bike lanes to some of the cross streets (13th Street, etc)?

I do agree that the city has something going with its walkability, and I, too, think it can only get better! They can easily deck I-95 and the Vine St. Expressway to make for a seamless connection between Center City/Old City with the Delaware River and North Philly. Aren't they/didn't they improve the Market Street bridge and/or JFK Blvd Bridge over the Schuylkill River that included better sidewalks? I think more could be done about some of those bridges over the Schuylkill, but I do see it getting there...
I love biking around Philly. It is one of my favorite things to do in the summer.
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  #26  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 4:00 AM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
By "cultural vibrancy" I'm broadly referring to things like (contemporary) music, art, fashion, food, nightlife. For which Philadelphia seems to punch a little below its weight considering the size of the city (then again I could be wrong...). Unsurprising though with New York being right there, "stealing" away potential talent, plus regional competition with DC, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh. It doesn't quite lord over a vast hinterland like San Francisco or Detroit or Portland or Miami or Chicago or Toronto or Montreal. The upside of this of course being the proximity to other major, interesting cities - always a nice thing.
Food, music and art are world class

You are correct on nightlife and fashion... Though I could care less about fashion.... I do wish bars/clubs were open later
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  #27  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 4:05 AM
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Philly is the best bike city in America IMO

Flat and narrow streets = superior biking

Biking in NYC is a death wish... Biking is Boston is difficult as well... San Fran has too many hills. I'd say that dc is the only other major city that is close to Philly in biking ease
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  #28  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 4:53 AM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
By "cultural vibrancy" I'm broadly referring to things like (contemporary) music, art, fashion, food, nightlife. For which Philadelphia seems to punch a little below its weight considering the size of the city (then again I could be wrong...). Unsurprising though with New York being right there, "stealing" away potential talent, plus regional competition with DC, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh. It doesn't quite lord over a vast hinterland like San Francisco or Detroit or Portland or Miami or Chicago or Toronto or Montreal. The upside of this of course being the proximity to other major, interesting cities - always a nice thing.
Philly's creative economy is not just good, it's booming. Booming, I tell ya.

http://articles.philly.com/2012-06-2...e-economy-jobs


http://articles.philly.com/2012-09-2...-cultural-fund

snippet:

The economic-impact study, based on data collected from 345 arts and cultural organizations and more than 2,000 audience members, reports that the sector triggers a total of $3.3 billion in direct and indirect expenditures every year.

In the area of employment, culture in the first-ranked Philadelphia region supports 43,700 jobs; Greater Houston, number two, generates 29,100, and Washington, number three, 29,000.

(New York City is not included in the report because officials there said that, given the size and complexity of their region, the cost of gathering data is too high to allow participation.)

Arts and cultural organizations are responsible for $1.04 billion in household paychecks distributed in the Philadelphia region. The city produces $490.3 million in household income; the four suburban counties (Bucks, Chester, Delaware, and Montgomery) produce $349.5 million.
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  #29  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 5:21 AM
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Originally Posted by phillyaggie View Post
In the area of employment, culture in the first-ranked Philadelphia region supports 43,700 jobs; Greater Houston, number two, generates 29,100, and Washington, number three, 29,000.
...yeah, so here are the regions the report (commissioned by the Greater Philadelphia Cultural Alliance) compared in 2012:

greater washington
southeastern pennsylvania
greater hartford area
greater houston area
metropolitan kansas city area
greater portland area
greater milwaukee area
southeastern michigan region
north texas region (incl. dallas)
central florida region (incl. orlando)

Not included: the regions of Boston, Miami, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Chicago, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Denver, Austin, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, etc.
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  #30  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 5:23 AM
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I'm not doubting Philadelphia's cultural stature, btw. Philadelphia is awesome and has a boatload of cultural attractions and amenities. You should just probably cite more respectable sources as proof, though.
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  #31  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 5:34 AM
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How odd that the local organization omitted some obvious peers, particularly Boston. Chicago and San Francisco would predictably score higher, but often a study will include a few examples to strive for.

Measuring the arts economy sounds like measuring the tech economy. There would be so many things to count or not count.
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  #32  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 5:43 AM
phillyaggie phillyaggie is offline
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Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G View Post
I'm not doubting Philadelphia's cultural stature, btw. Philadelphia is awesome and has a boatload of cultural attractions and amenities. You should just probably cite more respectable sources as proof, though.
That source shows there are 44,000 jobs in the arts scene in Philly metro. It also gives stats on the taxes and incomes generated. Perhaps you should provide numbers from other "peer" metros so we can compare. Otherwise I made the point already that the arts scene in Philly is strong and getting more vibrant even in a lousy economy.

You must have also missed page 20 where cities from all over are provided for comparison.

https://www.philaculture.org/sites/d...ity_report.pdf

Washington, DC $1,806 24.3 14,600
San Francisco, CA $871 24.2 19,700
Philadelphia, PA $805 19.3 29,800
Chicago, IL $770 21.2 60,500
Seattle, WA $748 18.1 10,800
Baltimore, MD $609 14.9 9,500
Pittsburgh, PA * $563 16.9 20,500
Atlanta, GA $558 17.5 9,400
San Diego, CA $520 15.9 20,400
Indianapolis, IN $475 16.2 13,100
St. Louis, MO* $432 14.1 19,000
Miami, FL* $430 11.9 29,800
Los Angeles, CA $361 9.7 37,400
Austin, TX $312 9.7 7,300
Dallas, TX $252 8.8 11,200
Charlotte, NC* $222 6.8 6,200
Houston, TX* $213 4.8 19,700
columbus, OH* $197 7.4 8,500
Phoenix, AZ $192 6.1 9,600
Raleigh, NC* $185 7.4 6,600
Albuquerque, NM $176 7.0 3,700
Memphis, TN* $136 4.2 3,900
San Jose, CA $129 3.0 2,800
San Antonio, TX $100 3.8 5,100
Tucson, AZ* $86 2.6 2,600
Sacramento, CA* $80 3.2 4,400
Fort Worth, TX* $47 1.7 3,000
Riverside, CA* $41 1.2 2,500
Las Vegas, NV* $30 0.8 1,500
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  #33  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 6:08 AM
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Originally Posted by phillyaggie View Post
You must have also missed page 20 where cities from all over are provided for comparison.

https://www.philaculture.org/sites/d...ity_report.pdf

Washington, DC $1,806 24.3 14,600
San Francisco, CA $871 24.2 19,700
Philadelphia, PA $805 19.3 29,800
Chicago, IL $770 21.2 60,500
Seattle, WA $748 18.1 10,800
Baltimore, MD $609 14.9 9,500
Pittsburgh, PA * $563 16.9 20,500
Atlanta, GA $558 17.5 9,400
San Diego, CA $520 15.9 20,400
Indianapolis, IN $475 16.2 13,100
St. Louis, MO* $432 14.1 19,000
Miami, FL* $430 11.9 29,800
Los Angeles, CA $361 9.7 37,400
Austin, TX $312 9.7 7,300
Dallas, TX $252 8.8 11,200
Charlotte, NC* $222 6.8 6,200
Houston, TX* $213 4.8 19,700
columbus, OH* $197 7.4 8,500
Phoenix, AZ $192 6.1 9,600
Raleigh, NC* $185 7.4 6,600
Albuquerque, NM $176 7.0 3,700
Memphis, TN* $136 4.2 3,900
San Jose, CA $129 3.0 2,800
San Antonio, TX $100 3.8 5,100
Tucson, AZ* $86 2.6 2,600
Sacramento, CA* $80 3.2 4,400
Fort Worth, TX* $47 1.7 3,000
Riverside, CA* $41 1.2 2,500
Las Vegas, NV* $30 0.8 1,500
No, I saw that page. But those are cities, not regions. There's a huge difference.
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  #34  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 6:42 AM
phillyaggie phillyaggie is offline
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Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G View Post
No, I saw that page. But those are cities, not regions. There's a huge difference.
we're talking about cities here being walkable, and supposed lack of cultural vibrancy being Philly's undoing...according to MonkeyRonin.

Philly may or may not be walkable for other reasons, but cultural vibrancy is almost certainly not one of the hindrances. The city is home to a vast collection of longstanding cultural and arts institutions that are all very walkable and easily accessible (okay, art museum may be not so much, due to its layout at the end of a long boulevard inspired by the City Beautiful movement). Within 2 miles of EASY, urban, visually-dense, WALKING on wide sidewalks lined generally with either beautiful housing stock or mixed retail and restaurants/sidewalk cafes, you have literally dozens of arts and cultural institutions in any direction you go from the central City Hall. Frankly, I'm surprised that CentralGrad would raise a stink about it... here are some of the highlights and a handy map of downtown arts/cultural investments from 2010-2012 vintage: http://www.centercityphila.org/docs/SOCC2012_arts.pdf

Last edited by phillyaggie; Dec 24, 2012 at 6:55 AM.
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  #35  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 2:23 PM
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I guess I was referring more to 'high' culture, not hipsters or fashion or food or multiculturalism or popular music. For example, Philly was where Louis I. Kahn's studio was. Grace Kelly, Philadelphia Orchestra, Philadelphia Academy of fine Arts, etc.
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  #36  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by phillyaggie View Post
Frankly, I'm surprised that CentralGrad would raise a stink about it... here are some of the highlights and a handy map of downtown arts/cultural investments from 2010-2012 vintage: http://www.centercityphila.org/docs/SOCC2012_arts.pdf
Dude, re-read my post. I go out of my way to point out that Center City is very walkable. But Center City is a relatively small geographic sliver of the entire city and we're talking about the whole city right? I agree though that cultural vibrancy is far from lacking, whether we're talking high-brow old money classical culture, or low-down, dirty hipster culture.
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  #37  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 5:32 PM
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Dude, re-read my post. I go out of my way to point out that Center City is very walkable. But Center City is a relatively small geographic sliver of the entire city and we're talking about the whole city right? I agree though that cultural vibrancy is far from lacking, whether we're talking high-brow old money classical culture, or low-down, dirty hipster culture.
Sure, there are blocks of unsavory/dead zone areas even within Center City (hello, east Chestnut!). All the same, you said a walk from Center City to University City isn't all that. Well, South St is one, but honestly Walnut St isn't so bad-- I've done that walk and the thing is, it's getting better an better...and really fairly quickly (all things considered).

I mean, you can walk for miles just on Walnut Street and go west... start from Penn's Landing and you will see:
-the Independence Seaport Museum;
-a really nice and very walkable pedestrian bridge over the interstate;
-on weekend evenings, there's Old City life buzzing over on Walnut on blocks from Front St to at least Fourth St; sure, they could do a whole lot more with that stretch considering some of the historic buildings there (Merchants Exchange being a huge one), but it's not like things aren't changing...a new apt mid-rise is coming up, bringing new life to that part of the street;
-next you see the Independence Park and then Washington Square; you see Curtis building and its sheer beauty and how that's held up for all this time;
-next you see Jefferson's campus buildings and a lot of hubbub for several blocks... heck, even Penn Medicine is going to have a Walnut St address here on 8th St.
-then of course you get the Walnut St Theater, nation's oldest, and still going very strong!
-then you get to "Midtown" and gayborhood, and all the restaurants and some interesting shopping there. some blocks are tree-lined and really feels like a charming "main street" of a smaller town around where Top Tomato, Ten Thousand Villages, Maoz, Moriarty's, etc are.
-of course you also have the Forrest Theater... could be much more livelier with more shows, but it's not marketed as well to the touring companies...but it's on a nice block and isn't posing any hindrance to walkabilility;
- then you cross Broad St and really get into glitzy shopping, dining, living, and office district along "Rittenhouse Row" for at least from 15th St to 22nd St. There is one surface lot on this stretch, that is all, and I can't imagine it'll last very much longer. Meanwhile, retail rents are going up up up, which is making so much of this stretch have turnover, with older tenants moving off to Chestnut St and elsewhere, thus spreading the zone and keeping Rittenhouse Row revitalized. We even have a Barney's Co-op. For a lot of small-format space, Rittenhosue Row punches above its weight and is throwing off its success to blocks surrounding it. And on almost any day, those are some of the busiest sidewalks with lots of great city life walking past...very few cities match that on a daily basis. Downtown Dallas, for example, has the Neiman Marcus flagship store, yet they can't even dream of having the pedestrian density that Walnut St attracts even on the coldest, snowiest day of the year! Houston's downtown, while it has improved, also still lives and walks about in a subterranean level.
- the last couple of blocks before you hit the river are on the quiet side, but that's because there is high priced residences there who want their peace and quiet. Sure, there is that Sunoco gas station, but across from it is a perfectly fine retail-lined residential building with wide sidewalk. A city will need things like a gas station. Walnut St also has Jefferson's campus chiller, but so what? That's what makes the city go...it needs this sort of infrastructure and not everything is going to fit into an alleyway like Sansom.
-then you get the Schuylkill Banks and the bridge over the river; there is so much programming at the bottom of the Walnut St bridge and a lot of trail runners use that bridge to get to/from that trail down below. There are Penn and Drexel students walking across the street as well, and it's not so bad...I mean, I don't know what you'd want from a bridge that necessarily carries a lot of traffic.
-on the other side of the river, there is a veritable renaissance brewing. There is the XPN/World Cafe Live, and there is the huge, new Penn Park right there.
-then there is the Left Bank which has even attracted a Tria, among other tenants.
-finally there are several blocks of Penn/Drexel campus life and related retails as far as 40th St and further west.

That's 2+ miles of walking and save for very few less-than-perfect blocks, it is very urban, very walkable, very dense, and is almost a string of pearls as far as what all you can see and do.


Philly's 2 subway lines are indeed inadequate. They were supposed to be the backbone for a much bigger system that never was built due to paucity of funds. But subways are just one leg of the mass transit picture. The trolleys are really quite good and are helping to revitalize the areas around Penn... if there were trolley lines connecting Powelton Village and Mantua to Center City those areas too would be booming a lot more than they already are (well, not Mantua, yet).

But more to the point are the buses and their frequency. Perhaps it's just a matter of where I live and where I tend to take buses, but I've mostly had a pleasant experience riding SEPTA buses to lots of places around town. Buses are perfectly fine and not every place needs a subway stop to make it walkable.
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  #38  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 8:48 PM
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Aggie you need to chill dog, I say this as a Philly resident.

Heres the short of it, Philly's massive when it comes to art, music, fashion, counterculture.

its simple:

NYC
LA
CHI
SF
Philly

In that order for breadth of well rounded counter culture. Montreal or Toronto would bump up to 4th or 5th if included, bumping Philly out and possibly SF. SF is more big on refined culture in my opinion. The only thing out of these that could be interchangeable I suppose are the spots for CHI and SF, but I give CHI the edge. Once again we are talking counter-subculture here only.

Take it from me, an urban outfitters manager (sometimes unfortunately).

When it comes to legitimate counter and sub-culture, food, music, diy, art, etc etc
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  #39  
Old Posted Dec 26, 2012, 5:27 AM
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No more city v. city on this thread, guys.
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  #40  
Old Posted Dec 26, 2012, 12:14 PM
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Wouldn't you rate DCs transit better than Philly's?
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