What's the minimum income to live comfortably in your city?

[Mr Roboto]

Shanghai is cheap by American standards.


Chicago, IL:

~$2650/month, which is my share of ~5000/mo between me and my wife (she pays elec., home insurance and some other stuff, I pay all the car stuff etc even though I only use CTA (free for me))

mortgage - 1050
assoc. fees incl. cable & internet - 250
babysitter - 200 (only 1 or 2/week)
cell - ~50
car payment & insurance - 250
student loans & credit card debt - 300
food - 400
maintenance/etc - 100
entertainment - 50 (yeah, what.)

Im 28 and live in the near-south of Chicago, with wife and baby. I rarely go out, but I love my place and chilling with baby and wifey so that helps. I actually can save a lot of money not going out, which (as people here have said) is pretty expensive in chicago. Plus, I already did that for years in my early 20's etc. The less I go out, the more vacations etc I can take. Sometimes I catch free music/stuff in the spring and summer at Grant park, or just walk downtown. B-ball and workout is now my fun. Oh and I go out once a month for dinner with the family (yay), which is included in 'food'.

[M.K.]

Here is pretty high. cost per month

€ 1000 for a rent
€ 500 supermarket and other spenses
€ 200 car, insurance, public transportation

so a minimal salary of €4000 bruto which makes €2500 per month is the minimal enough. A salary in family of € 50 kilos is the minimal to have a good compromise life here..

[MonkeyRonin]

Approximate theoretical expenses per month for me, in Toronto:

Rent: $800 for an inner-city non-basement studio apartment near a subway station
Various bills: $100
Food: $300
TTC: $110
Entertainment/shopping: $300

Total: $1610/month, $19,320/year.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by MKmillenium

Here is pretty high. cost per month

Where is "here"? If you're not going to put your actual geographic location in your profile then you need to make a geographic reference every time you talk about "here".

All I know is you're somewhere in Europe.

[isaidso]

Toronto

Just scraping by, but no life to speak of:
Rent $700
Food $300
Utilities including phone $120
TTC $110
Clothing, medicine, incidentals, etc $150

Surviving: $1380/month or $16,560 in net income after taxes. This is the bare minimum to survive and allows for no liquor, entertainment, or luxuries like cable tv, buying magazines, or eating food that's made for you.

Living comfortably:
Rent: $1000
Food: $600
Utilities including phone: $200
TTC: $110
Clothing, medicine, incidentals: $400
Entertainment and restaurants: $400
Investments and insurance: $300

Living comfortably: $3,010 or $36,120 in net income after taxes. You can live a comfortable life in Toronto with this money. You'd need about $55,000 gross to do it and it won't allow you any of the finer things in life like annual trips, luxury goods, or expensive restaurants.

The working middle class earn from $30,000/year to $150,000/year. The working rich earn $150,000+/year, while the aristocracy don't work at all, but have millions flowing into their accounts.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Toronto

Just scraping by, but no life to speak of:
Rent $700
Food $300
Utilities including phone $120
TTC $110
Clothing, medicine, incidentals, etc $150

Surviving: $1380/month or $16,560 in net income after taxes. This is the bare minimum to survive and allows for no liquor, entertainment, or luxuries like cable tv, buying magazines, or eating food you don't make yourself.

In the case of the bare minimum, you could easily drop $300 on rent by sharing a two-bedroom basement apartment at $800/month (of which there are many).

[someone123]

Toronto rentals are actually surprisingly cheap. The subway really helps.

Vancouver is difficult because much of the inner city is not very well-served by transit. Bus frequencies and times are not horrible but they are much slower so the area with reasonable commutes is smaller (maybe 1/2 of the city of Vancouver itself, which is much smaller than Toronto). Jobs and the universities are more spread out than in Toronto as well.

As for a shared basement apartment.. ugh.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

In the case of the bare minimum, you could easily drop $300 on rent by sharing a two-bedroom basement apartment at $800/month (of which there are many).

Not even the government expect grown adults to double up to save money. That's something students do. You're looking at this from the perspective of a college student. You're also assuming that people can find someone suitable to room with. We're not talking about 23 year olds here. There's no way in hell that you can expect a 30, 40, 50 year old person to give up their independence and get a room mate. There's not a government in Canada that looks at that as an enforceable option.

[FREKI]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

the problem with this is defining "comfortable". to some, comfortable is being able to dine out/hit the bars/clubs 5-6 nights a week, to others it's making simple meals for yourself at home most of the time. the cost difference between those extremes can be HUGE

Indeed!

I was under the understanding that the thread maker was looking for something simple like his first apartment after moving out and for that one really doesn't need a huge budget... ( he also asks for "minimum income" )

I wouldn't want to live like a late teen again, but for a young person who's alternative is living with parent then it really doesn't have to cost as much as some people make it look like..

And if you can live for some $22-24k pre tax here in Copenhagen with the stuff mentioned in the first post then you surely should be able to do so in North America!

[Strange Meat]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Not even the government expect grown adults to double up to save money. That's something students do. You're looking at this from the perspective of a college student. You're also assuming that people can find someone suitable to room with. We're not talking about 23 year olds here. There's no way in hell that you can expect a 30, 40, 50 year old person to give up their independence and get a room mate. There's not a government in Canada that looks at that as an enforceable option.

People really really need to start adjusting their expectations, I think.

[bnk]

A Single person 80-100K/year gross vs net

Family of four 200-250K/year

Comfortably of course, meaning no worries about cost of transportation.

No worries about having a nice ride. No worries about vacations ect.



No worries about how many times or where you eat out at night.

Comfortably is very relative you know....

Edit... found this

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

the problem with this is defining "comfortable". to some, comfortable is being able to dine out/hit the bars/clubs 5-6 nights a week, to others it's making simple meals for yourself at home most of the time. the cost difference between those extremes can be HUGE.

comfortable buy its simple definition is extremely subjective.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Not even the government expect grown adults to double up to save money. That's something students do. You're looking at this from the perspective of a college student. You're also assuming that people can find someone suitable to room with. We're not talking about 23 year olds here. There's no way in hell that you can expect a 30, 40, 50 year old person to give up their independence and get a room mate. There's not a government in Canada that looks at that as an enforceable option.

While it isn't for everyone, I know a number of people making $50k or more and around 30 that live with roommates. If you're not living with a significant other it makes a lot of sense. Not everybody likes to live alone, myself included, which is why I moved in with 2 other people after spending a year living in a 1 bedroom apartment.

[Austinlee]

Where I live is ridiculously cheap.

20 miles west of downtown Pittsburgh. I am 10 minutes from the Pittsburgh international airport.

Rent - 700 sq ft apt - $300 month
Food - $150 month
elec - $100 month
gas - $75 month
cable/phone'broadband - $130 month
No car payment

total: $800 month
Income: $3,400+ month

Plus living in one of the least congested metros in the country, with world class symphony, arts, architecture, sports teams, nightlife = One of the most under rated cities in the US!

[Dan Denson]

Seems like most people I know manage to spend all they make each month. But here's mine for Austin (single guy with a bunch of cats):

1100 mortgage on 1,500 sq ft house bought in 1992 (Allandale neighborhood)
(includes taxes and insurance)
400 food. I eat dinner out a lot.
100 A/C in the summer (I use ceiling fans a lot; those who don't can have\
very large A/C bills
70 gas bill for heating in the winter. I don't use heat much (just dress
warmly in the house, but natural gas has been getting more expensive)
30 water. higher in summer, lower in winter; this is my average
50 internet connection (I dropped cable TV because it's trash)
50 cell phone
20 land line (to be dropped soon)
80 gas for car (no car payment)
80 car insurance
20 clothes (buy only at second hand stores for most items)
50 misc groceries (cleaning items, toiletries, etc.)
100 vet bills
10 entertainment (not into bar scene)
50 charitable donations
20 yard and garden
30 termite control

2260 (leftover goes into savings)

Some months have much greater expenditures if there's a large expenditure such as purchase of an appliance, electronic gear, home upgrade, etc.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by PA Pride

Where I live is ridiculously cheap.

20 miles west of downtown Pittsburgh. I am 10 minutes from the Pittsburgh international airport.

Rent - 700 sq ft apt - $300 month
Food - $150 month
elec - $100 month
gas - $75 month
cable/phone'broadband - $130 month
No car payment

total: $800 month
Income: $3,400+ month

Plus living in one of the least congested metros in the country, with world class symphony, arts, architecture, sports teams, nightlife = One of the most under rated cities in the US!

Wow... Maybe I should think about moving to Pittsburgh!

I do know what you're talking about, though... I used to live in Cleveland and it was a lot like that, although even there I don't think you can get a decent apartment in a good area for $300 anymore. Also, although you could get by without a car in Cleveland (if you choose your neighborhood carefully), going carless would probably put a huge crimp in your social life.

Here's mine:

Rent $1490 (760 sq ft condo in full-amenity highrise; includes heat/AC/water/cable plus use of pool, fitness center, etc.)

Phone/Internet $75

Electric $25

Food $375 (includes meals out, at cheap ethnic restaurants mostly, and I tend to avoid ordering beverages and stick to icewater)

Misc $135 (sundries, entertainment, transportation, etc.)

TOTAL: $2100

I don't own a car, and spend less than $200 a year on clothes, including shoes. I'm semi-retired and work from home, and that saves me quite a bit on clothing and transportation costs. I also tend not to spend money on "toys" (electronics, etc.)... just not interested. If I want to do any traveling, that expense is extra and not included in the budget above.

I could opt to get a more basic apartment in a less sought-after part of town and shave a few hundred bucks off rent, which I could either save or use to up my travel/entertainment budget, but I choose not to at this time.

[ikerrin]

Originally Posted by 10023

For Manhattan, I'd say $100k of pretax income is the "comfort" threshold. You won't be able to own your apartment at that level, or have a car, or do much in the way of vacations. But that will cover rent for a nice studio or junior 1-bedroom, transportation, utilities, cable, phone, groceries, lunchbreaks in Midtown every weekday and a couple dinners out a week, plus a reasonable budget for alcohol, entertainment and shopping.

It seems people so far are way underestimating the actual expenses involved in living. What about dry cleaning? Eating out at restaurants (or even grabbing something from Cosi on your lunch break)? Any kind of entertainment expenses (alcohol, tickets, etc). What about shopping? Granted you don't necessarily do that every week or even every month, but at some point you've got to buy clothing, or household goods, etc., so this needs to be averaged out across a year. Travel? Dating?

I can't remember the last time I dry-cleaned anything - I think it was my tux after spilling something on it at a dinner. Clearly, Manhattan or central London or downtown Tokyo are a different story than Queens or Jersey City.

[brandonlee206]

Before the economy turned downward and credit/jobs were more abundant, my budget for downtown Seattle was:

Rent: $1600/mo (1 bedroom apt with utility)
Parking: $150/mo (not included in rent)
Car Loan: $650/mo
Car Insurance: $250/mo
Student Loans: $600/mo
Cell: $130/mo
Internet: $0 (used wireless networks in downtown)
Cable TV I canceled after I realized it's just 583 channels of nothing
Gym: $80/mo
Eating out 20 meals per week: $600/mo
Gas (back when regular was $5/gallon): $200/mo
Arts/Entertainment: $500/mo

Now (after the recession and me coming to my senses about what's required and what's not):
Rent: $700/mo
Utility: $60/mo
Ditched the car and take Metro and saved $650 per month on car note, $250 per month on car insurance and all of that gas cash. Metro pass is about $100
My dining and entertainment budget have shrunk about 70% as I have gotten more creative about these things.

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by JordanL

$50 electric bill? What in the world?

Do you like have a single bulb and a radio?

I've never spent more than $35 on my combined gas/electric bill in SF, and it's typically $15-20 (Two people in a 850 sqft apartment). We don't have to use heating much and never have to use air conditioning (don't even have one).

I would say a single person could live comfortably in SF on $50,000 if they have roommates, and more like $60,000 if they don't want roommates. That said, you won't get to experience a lot of the city without at least twice that.

[BTinSF]

Originally Posted by Gordo

I would say a single person could live comfortably in SF on $50,000 if they have roommates, and more like $60,000 if they don't want roommates. That said, you won't get to experience a lot of the city without at least twice that.

I'm really curious what costs $50K to $60K (over and above the basics) and constitutes the experience of "a lot of the city". Nightly meals at top tier restaurants? Season tickets to the opera in a box or the Grand Tier? I mean I just spend nothing like that on "discretionary items" experiencing the city (travel elsewhere not included) and can't think of much I'm missing that matters to me.

[Kilgore Trout]

here's what i experience in hong kong.

rent: HK$4000 / US$500
transportation: HK$600 / US$75
utilities: HK$50 / US$6.5
internet/tv: HK$260 / US$33
mobile phone: HK$80 / US$10
food: HK$2500 / US$320
entertainment: HK$500 / US$64

total: HK$7990 / US$1030

some notes:

- i share a two-bedroom 500 sq. ft. apartment with my girlfriend.

- electricity is subsidized, so we pay nothing, and gas is cheap.

- our internet/broadband tv package is a bit expensive, but we got it when we were living in a more remote area with fewer options.

- phone plans here are ridiculously cheap. my base rate is HK$35 (US$4.5) for 850 minutes and free intra-network SMS.

- some grocery items here can be expensive, especially imported stuff, but it's easy to keep costs down if you're wise and you avoid too much "western" food.

- i eat out almost every meal. an average dinner in a casual restaurant will cost HK$30-$50 (US$3.9-$6.5) including soft drink; lunch is cheaper. if i'm really feeling stingy i'll get some noodle soup or street food for less than US$2.

- coffee is expensive in HK (typically HK$28 or US$3.5 for a cappuccino) so i make my own coffee at home (with a moka pot or vietnamese filter) and only go to cafes for a treat.

- similarly, bars are completely overpriced. happy hour (about 4pm-9pm, depending on the place) is affordable (about HK$35 or US$4.5 for a pint of beer) but normal hours hurts the wallet. typical pint is HK$50 or US$6.5.

- fortunately, it's possible to drink for very cheap. supermarket and 7-11 beer costs very little... and public drinking is legal. i can get a nice german weissbier to drink at home, in the park or on a rooftop for a little over US$1. many restaurants also have cheap beer.

- live music is really expensive (HK$150 is normal for a typical indie gig) and my entertainment costs would be way higher if i went to more shows.